Select to expand quoteXYZ said.. a bunch of blah, blah, blah and then:I think Naish promotes maneuverability because Naish has no other things to promote.
FTFY: Naish promotes maneuverability because Naish wanted a maneuverable free ride foil.
What you originally said is a goofy as saying a wave board isn't any good because it's slower than a slalom board. Yeah, it's supposed to be. Until you've spent enough time on the water to understand what different people are trying to accomplish, your engineer mind will never be able to wrap itself around all the things that are going on right now.
Nothing against foiling but I've yet to see one plane consistently below 10 knots.
Yesterday at Melville there were two hydrofoil kite surfers planing consistently till it got dark. The wind looked well less than 10 knots with the occassional gust to 12.
Hydrofoil windsurfing is promoted mostly as a lightwind alternative to windsurfing. To me it does offer some improvement in light conditions for the same sail size though not great. The main difference it offers is a different feel.
Were I want to get out in marginal conditions of 6-12 knots, hydrofoil kiting is clearly the way to go,not that I like them much!
Select to expand quotepetermac33 said..
Nothing against foiling but I've yet to see one plane consistently below 10 knots.
Yesterday at Melville there were two hydrofoil kite surfers planing consistently till it got dark. The wind looked well less than 10 knots with the occassional gust to 12.
Hydrofoil windsurfing is promoted mostly as a lightwind alternative to windsurfing. To me it does offer some improvement in light conditions for the same sail size though not great. The main difference it offers is a different feel.
Were I want to get out in marginal conditions of 6-12 knots, hydrofoil kiting is clearly the way to go,not that I like them much!
Find someone who's using a good 1000+ wing. The difference between that and the more common 800ish wings is measurable. I can fly mine in about the same wind as my kiter buddy who's using a 17m and foil. And when the wind (and his kite) drops, I'm not swimming home.
www.raceyou.ru:443/showthread.php?t=25231&page=47
This is a comment from Russian forum about Naish foil in Moscow:
See post #694 from anton
"???? ???? ??? ? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? 6,2 ??? ????? ???????(??? ? ??????? ????? ????????) ???? ?? ??????? ???? 5-7 ?/? ?? ? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????????? ????."
In English: "Naish foil did not make it in flight. Perhaps 6.2 sail was too small. Poor guy could rent a bigger sail. Wind was 5-7 m/s (6-13 knots). The rider was as light as amaster (75 kg). "
If you read his earlier posts he is talking about good day of windsurfing when all sailors have been having fun foiling and formula sailing but not the guy on Naish Foil with 6.2 sail.
I have been using my new foil for some time already. I need 7 knots to foil: 1000 sq cm, 7.2, 175lbs, no harness. Measured 7 knots very accurately when wind was on shore within 6.5-7.5 knots. Possibly take off at 7.5 knots and continue flight when wind temporary drops to 6.5. Fine tuning of foil and sail is the key. Stiffness is very important for easy control. My stabilizer deflects for 1/8" inch if I hang 40 lbs on it. Check your foil. Wings design needs to be good = short chord and large span. I will post a video when I learn flying turns. For now check this video of a foil very similar to what I have with wind speed measuring:
GPS tracks and speeds bro, post them.
I think you have successfully created the world's slowest flying foil if nothing else, props ??
XYZ yet again, your claim of the Naish foiler proves nothing. As anyone with a basic understanding of sailing and foiling knows, a sailor can rig a sail poorly, and the foil and sail will not perform together as expected. Perhaps this is the case? Perhaps the foil has not been adjusted correctly for the rear wing angle of attack, and hence the foil won't lift? Perhaps the sailor is not as experienced as the others? In the video I see nothing of the Naish foiler. Where is he/she?
How about you go and hire a Naish foil, and compare it with your awesome foil, capture some video of them both to prove us doubters wrong.
If the FRP gear is as good as you reckon it is, then how come there isn't a massive following for it? I've googled for FRP gear, and can only find a couple of minor mentions, and many of those are not favourable.
If it was as good as you say, then how come no independent reviews of the foils which includes FRP have been carried out? Conspiracy against FPR? Or maybe it's just not good enough to make the cut to start with?
I'm not saying the FRP gear is rubbish (I'm not saying it's awesome either). I'm just saying that your claims of FRP gear being WAAAAY better than Naish are not supported by your arguments or evidence. There is plenty of evidence out there that refutes your claims of Naish being a poor product - despite what you say.
Regarding my previous comments, you still question Naish being able to fly in sub 14 knots despite the videos that have been put up - how much evidence do you need?
My negative experience with the Naish product is that the board is built very light, and is not robust. I have dinged mine by dropping a screwdriver on it, which I found disappointing. Foil is constructed well. And I would also say that in my limited experience, the Slingshot foil felt like it performed a tiny bit better, but was more difficult to use.
I bought frpgear foil because of positive comments from Europe, particularly from Bulgaria and from Russia.
From Bulgaria reposted on French forum in English:
www.windsurfing33.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=113208
From Russia (use google translator):
www.raceyou.ru:443/showthread.php?t=28946
BTW, Russian forum has widely adopted term "Fly-Fin Mode" as a description of high speed planing at light wind when it is not enough wind to fly a foil. For example, one Russian dude describes his day: "Because it was not enough wind to fly my Horue I just planed around in Fly-Fin mode. Guys! There is really Fly-Fin Mode. It works!" Starboard affiliate responds: "Would you stop using Fly-Fin Mode term!" Another guy comments: "I had much of Fly-Fin Mode today as well."
I do not see negative comments from English speaking frpgear customers. But I would like to read them if you can provide a link.
Windsurfing is much bigger in EU compare to US. It will come to the US. I already use fly-fin for early planing and I am satisfied with my new fly-fin hydrofoil. When I become good in flying jibe I will post a video. Again, I invested in fly-fin hydrofoil because it gets me in flight every day I go surfing. Now, I do not even need to check the weather. Even if it is no wind I get some moments in flight because of thermal wind we have every day about at noon for some 1/2 hr. Amazing!
I did not see flying jibes on the most recent Naish promotional video. Did anyone?
Perhaps, it was a coincident in Moscow. All the 100 people were good enough for light wind windsurfing and the only Naish customer was not. But when I listed to Naish video it tells me that it is very easy to fly Naish. As I already said, Naish is OK for beginners to try it for low cost. But you cannot fly Naish at light wind conditions like all foiles do in Europe. However, the latest Race Naish design look more like our light wind European foils. I see Naish is listening to its customers (affiliates) on this forum and on Russian forum and is trying to make better foils. This is good for us - the consumers. More competition means lower price.
Grabbed from a thread over in General: RSX planing in 0 wind!
Select to expand quoteXYZ said..
I bought frpgear foil because of positive comments from Europe, particularly from Bulgaria and from Russia.
From Bulgaria reposted on French forum in English:
www.windsurfing33.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=113208
Did you even read the threads you linked?
"I do not know about his foil, but he made a lot of fuzz around his fin-foil last year and all the people who have sailed them said it was absolute crap
The problem of the guy is that he maybe very competent in mechanic but he knows nothing about windsurfing - you can see on his site or on this video that he does not know the difference between a wave sail and a racing one..."
"And last year, the frp guy said windfoiling sucked and that his foil-fin where far better... he changed his mind apparently"
[in reply to Anton]
"I don't understand what you want ???
Do you want to buy it are you here to advertise for FRP ?
If first option, buy it, compare it to other foils with video and after we could speak about it... All we could see about FRP are bad quality videos on which you see nothing except very poor level of riding in not good conditions.
Personally, nothing I've seen gives me even the desire to be interested in their products."
These are the positive comments?
Right below the post where a Horue foil got 5th in a long distance race. btw, if you foil needs two stabs, you did the math wrong.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..
Right below the post where a Horue foil got 5th in a long distance race. btw, if you foil needs two stabs, you did the math wrong.
With apologies to Loke who show how to do two stabs properly. 
www.instagram.com/p/BksDTz1g1eR/
Recently published videos about Naish and FRPGear windfoiling.
1. Very experienced (see his other video at 30 knots wind) windsurfer is riding new Naish foil at 18 knots wind:
Select to expand quotePaducah said..
Grabbed from a thread over in General: RSX planing in 0 wind!
(Gotta love those $15 hand held anemometers) Hey, xyz, isn't that the same Anton guy that was laughed off the French foil forums for asking opinions about cheap Alibaba foils and other goofy stuff? Pretty sure it is.
Do you have any suggestions how to prove the wind speed claims on YouTube videos? You can get the board speed very accurate from a YouTube video. The wind speed can be derived from the angle of the sail - you close sail more to go faster at lighter wind.
However:
When Naish claims 6-10 knots - do I just believe it? Remember, Naish Co does not refund my money if I cannot fly Naish at 6-10 knots wind.
Do you really need an accurate wind speed report on frpgear videos because they refund you money if you do not like their foil?
Select to expand quoteXYZ said..
Recently published videos about Naish and FRPGear windfoiling.
Very impressive for 0 knots of wind. I wonder what caused the noise in the microphone
PS: ...My Tyrannosaurus is looking for his hipbone back.
Select to expand quoteXYZ obsessed..Paducah said..
Grabbed from a thread over in General: RSX planing in 0 wind!
(Gotta love those $15 hand held anemometers) Hey, xyz, isn't that the same Anton guy that was laughed off the French foil forums for asking opinions about cheap Alibaba foils and other goofy stuff? Pretty sure it is.
Do you have any suggestions how to prove the wind speed claims on YouTube videos? You can get the board speed very accurate from a YouTube video. The wind speed can be derived from the angle of the sail - you close sail more to go faster at lighter wind.
However:
When Naish claims 6-10 knots - do I just believe it? Remember, Naish Co does not refund my money if I cannot fly Naish at 6-10 knots wind.
Do you really need an accurate wind speed report on frpgear videos because they refund you money if you do not like their foil?
ffs, THEN DON'T BUY A NAISH Nobody is twisting your arm or holding your children hostage. He, his family and his company have been designing and selling windsurfing equipment for decades. They have what we call a REPUTATION. I have twenty yr old Naish designed boards that gave me years of pleasure. So, yeah, I'm' going to go with: I'm going to believe him.
You, however, don't have those years of goodwill, nor are your posts earning it.
Again, trying to bring things back on topic: Alex Morales, great guy in the States, who's doing good things building boards and foils. He's on an Avanti 8.4 (Pro tip XYZ, he races his designs against some very good windsurfers. He knows exactly how his stuff performs vs the competition)
www.instagram.com/p/BoOyonJgFSt/
Select to expand quoteXYZ said..Paducah said..
Grabbed from a thread over in General: RSX planing in 0 wind!
(Gotta love those $15 hand held anemometers) Hey, xyz, isn't that the same Anton guy that was laughed off the French foil forums for asking opinions about cheap Alibaba foils and other goofy stuff? Pretty sure it is.
Do you have any suggestions how to prove the wind speed claims on YouTube videos? You can get the board speed very accurate from a YouTube video. The wind speed can be derived from the angle of the sail - you close sail more to go faster at lighter wind.
However:
When Naish claims 6-10 knots - do I just believe it? Remember, Naish Co does not refund my money if I cannot fly Naish at 6-10 knots wind.
Do you really need an accurate wind speed report on frpgear videos because they refund you money if you do not like their foil?
No. But I can easily tell you are lying. Those videos you posted are not in 18 or 20 knots - especially the first. It is easy to tell by the water state - there are no whitecaps. I would guess less wind than in your video & with a smaller sail. Also although he may be an advanced windsurfer he is a beginner foiler. On the positive side, it looks like you are getting much better at riding your invention. It does look as though you may have been having some structural issues yourself .... with that monstrous support structure er... strut....
Select to expand quoteazymuth said..
You wouldn't want to drop that in the sand at our local dog beach 
That's not a bug, that's a feature.
"Honey, I need to buy a new foil, maybe one of those Starboard, Slingshot or, ahem, Naish ones I've been telling you about."
"What happened to your old one?"
"Dog ate it?"
It is good when competitors criticize the appearance. It means they have nothing to criticize in performance.
I actually purchased a different foil from frpgear.com. The one you show eaten by dogs model "Koryaga" is not in production yet, but I have paid for this already because the price is less for 50% if you pay ahead of time. Plus I get my 50% discount as an existing customer. It means I am going to have a new foil for almost no money out of my budget.
In fact, nobody knows yet how the production version of Koryaga will look like. It may look even extra ugly. However, water is not as clear on my spot as on Naish videos. Nobody can see the ugly Koryaga foil from the beach. With current prototype you can only see the upper portion attached to the board and it looks very cool (for an engineer): it looks like the board is supported by a conical hyperboloid so when you fly higher the spectators think that you are balancing on a point. Traditional mast may appear nice for a lamber Jack from WA because it looks like a straight log.
But, if you are one of these seating on the beach all the time next to your gear you may be better with a country style paint job like Naish particularly if you live in these former Russian/Mexican states like WA or OR. BTW Naish paintwork has been criticized on Russian forum. Naish paints his foils over the finished surface resulting in steps. FRP impregnates the painting inside the composite so there are no surface imperfections resulting in better performance and you can sand it without reaching the impregnated text.
The large base on the top of the foil makes it possible to use it on any bard - no need to reinforce the finbox. Just get the right adapter: Tuttle, Power, Naish rails, or US Box. Yes, US box is good for this foil too because there is very light, if any load, on the box. I can ride my foil even without fin box screws because there is no load on the crews. But the most important practical advantage is +/- 8 inch adjustment along the board. Unlike other foils I am not limited by fin box position. I can move my entire foil within 16 inch around fin box. This makes it very easy to find the right balance point without repositioning my foot straps. If I go from a smaller wing to a larger wing it is easy for me to rebalance the system. This is why my foil worked well right out of the box with factory preset angles. You can read on other thread how much trouble people are having with finding a correct balance on foils, particularly with short fuselage and smaller stabilizers like F4. And I can use the same foil on a kite board thanks to the universal adjustment. Interestingly, frp foil fits Naish board as well with more adjustment options compare to Naish foils. So, when I buy my next Naish used board for $50 I will be able to use my frpgear foil.
After all, why do I care how my frp foil appears to someone from USA or to anyone else if I can always return it and get all my money back if I discover that I want to ride Naish instead?
On a proud note to our American partners I have to admit that both: Naish and PRPGear products are Made in the USA!
Since we have Naish representatives here, perhaps, I can get my questions answered:
I have contacted Naish after watching Naish 2019 promotional video. See my conversation with Naish customer service below.
www.facebook.com/NaishWindsurfing/videos/263238997660504/
Customer: I understand Naish foils need minimum 10 knots wind to fly with 70kg rider and 5m sail. did I understand it correctly? What was the wind speed on the video?
Naish: Aloha,
With the Thrust Windsurf Foil and Hover 122 or 142 you need very little wind to get up and foil. How light of winds is dependent on ability but we have had guys send us photos foiling in winds as light as 8 knots! As far as the windspeed in the video, I'm not sure exactly but you can tell by the waters surface that it was very light.
Customer: Can I return the foil for a refund if my son does not like it because he says Naish may be not as light wind foil compared to the one he is using now? Thx.
Naish: That will depend on the dealers return policy. However the Thrust is a modular platform which means you can change wings and parts beyond the windsurf wings (like the Surf M,L & XL or even the KS2 wings)
Customer: Can you provide google map or GPS coordinates of the location and the day when the video was taken? From the video it appears that the wins is off shore resulting in very flat water surface at stronger wind, which appears to be some 14 knots, I see similar water surface in our location when the wind is off shore at 14 knots. If you provide the location and the day I could check wind speed recorded in the location of the video. And, could you please comment on my question about jibes? This video does not show a jibe, Do you have any videos with a jibe completed while in flight without touching water?
Naish::-) + No answer...
Customer:Where is your store located?
Naish: No answer...
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said.. I can easily tell you are lying. Those videos you posted are not in 18 or 20 knots - especially the first.
The wind speeds are posted on the videos. I just gave you the links to review the videos from real Naish customers.
On my spot white cups on water can be at 6 knots wind (on-shore) or at 20 knots wind (off-shore). You are using the same water surface argument to mislead customers as Naish representative used. Just chat with Naish reps about getting the wind speed and they tell you about flat water on the video, but you can see they tape the video in a close water with off-shore wind. You need to be a complete novice in sailing or work for Naish do not notice Naish lying.
Select to expand quotePaducah said.. : "THEN DON'T BUY A NAISH..."
I would never buy a foil if I do not have an option to return it for 100% refund if I am not satisfied. At least I need an option to try it for free from a local representative. I need a convenience to try, so I do not need to travel to Spain for a Naish event to try. I need an option for a free tryout at my home on my spot. FRPgear gives me such of an option to buy, try and return by using a Post service prepaid. Naish does not give me such an option. Naish wants me to buy and get stack with my purchase and but more wings that they say may fix my problems but they just want to get more of my money.
mate just p*ss off people are getting pretty sick of your crap
it started out amusing but that was a long time ago. goodbye.
