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Windsurfer looking to try kiting

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Created by HENDO 77 > 9 months ago, 6 Dec 2020
HENDO 77
WA, 285 posts
6 Dec 2020 8:48PM
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Asking for a friend
90kg and wanting to surf waves eventually.
What do you guys recommend
kite size . i was guessing 10-12m (perth conditions)
biggest TT i can find and cheapest for the rest of the season.
or do you go with a surfboard now if thats where you want to end up
Cheers for any replies

airsail
QLD, 1240 posts
7 Dec 2020 4:25AM
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Send him along to the local kitesurf school, it's the only way. Yes it will cost him a few dollars but they will have him up and going quickly and safely. After a few lessons he will understand what gear he needs, plenty of secondhand in the Buy and Sell section.
I'm a sailboarder now kiter, and this is definitely the safest route. There is only a little transfer of skills from a sailboard to a kite, unlike winging which is almost the same.

KiteBud
WA, 1515 posts
7 Dec 2020 8:14AM
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Hi HENDO 77,

Airsail is correct, your friend should really focus on getting multiple lessons for now then look for gear later.

Windsurfers wanting to learn to kitesurf tend to think they will learn much faster than others which is actually rarely the case. Knowledge of the wind helps but learning to control a kitesurfing kite is very different from windsurfing. I have taught well over 100 windsurfers how to kitesurf in the last 11 years and they actually typically progress slower than other students since they have a tendency to grab the bar very firmly and pull the bar all the way in which is very dangerous and really slows down the learning process.

This is explained in our blog article here: www.kitebud.com.au/how-many-lessons-do-you-need-to-learn-kitesurfing/

As far as kite size, a 10m should be more than enough for a 90kg beginner provided he used a board of at least 140cm to start with. 145cm would also work but I wouldn't go any bigger than that.

hope this helps

Christian - KiteBud

FormulaNova
WA, 14044 posts
8 Dec 2020 1:32PM
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Yes, 10m to 12m will be right for you if you only have one kite in Perth. I use an 11m and am between 90 and 100kgs depending on how full the fridge is.

Be very wary of instructors that take you out and they weigh 30kgs less than you! It is a big difference and a lot of instructors don't understand this because they have only ever been whatever they are.

Of note I had a French guy that looked to be all of 50kgs giving me a lesson on the river and I weigh double that He couldn't understand why I couldn't just 'park and ride' and why I was just sining the kite all the time to keep going. Another intructor refused to let me use the 14m kite on a light day even though he was about 20kgs lighter and was just barely going.

Don't put up with it, as it will delay your progress a lot! This does make it difficult for lighter instructors as to them a 14m will be over powered in the same conditions where you think its okay. Unfortunately until you get your technique sorted out, you do need that power and less is going to make it much harder to get the waterstarts nailed. Try to find someone closer to your weight as an instructor as it really does change things.

While I agree with Christian that a lot of windsurfers have that reaction of pulling in the bar, I did too, its not that hard to overcome it.

I was also surprised when another learner was telling me 'there is no overlap between kiting and windsurfing'. IMO absolute BS. Once you understand the wind, there is a lot of overlap.

Don't do what I did either and just do lessons here and there. I did lessons to fill in time each season and didn't progress. When I finally comitted to going out by myself, I went from very poor waterstarts to easily going up wind within a week or two. The rest is finesse.

I also warn you of getting the right board. The nice big floaty ones they use at Safety Bay for lessons are awesome for a beginner as they plane easy and get going in lighter wind. My first shop bought board is a 145cm (a tronic) and it is crap as the overall surface area is not enough, yet a board I bought later (a CBL) is supposedly the same length (well 144), but has more surface area and goes a lot lot better. (Wanna buy a Tronic... it would be perfect for you ;-) )

I also have a home made board of about 155cm and wide. it gets me going in light wind without needing to change the kite, and its worth its weight in gold.

I should offer myself to the kite schools as a sea-anchor to hold down the big kites for people like me but joking aside, if you get a lesson from an instructor that cannot use the same size kite as you, it will hold back your progress.

FormulaNova
WA, 14044 posts
8 Dec 2020 1:34PM
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Select to expand quote
cbulota said..
Hi HENDO 77,

Airsail is correct, your friend should really focus on getting multiple lessons for now then look for gear later.

Windsurfers wanting to learn to kitesurf tend to think they will learn much faster than others which is actually rarely the case. Knowledge of the wind helps but learning to control a kitesurfing kite is very different from windsurfing. I have taught well over 100 windsurfers how to kitesurf in the last 11 years and they actually typically progress slower than other students since they have a tendency to grab the bar very firmly and pull the bar all the way in which is very dangerous and really slows down the learning process.

This is explained in our blog article here: www.kitebud.com.au/how-many-lessons-do-you-need-to-learn-kitesurfing/

As far as kite size, a 10m should be more than enough for a 90kg beginner provided he used a board of at least 140cm to start with. 145cm would also work but I wouldn't go any bigger than that.

hope this helps

Christian - KiteBud


Christian, just out of interest, how much do you weigh? 10m is pretty small once you start going up the weight scale. I have a 9m and can get it going in normal seabreezes, but I have to work it a lot, which I can only do now that I have a decent amount of experience.

HENDO 77
WA, 285 posts
8 Dec 2020 4:38PM
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cheers Nova . ill take that onboard

Gateman
QLD, 409 posts
8 Dec 2020 7:13PM
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Select to expand quote
FormulaNova said..
Yes, 10m to 12m will be right for you if you only have one kite in Perth. I use an 11m and am between 90 and 100kgs depending on how full the fridge is.

Be very wary of instructors that take you out and they weigh 30kgs less than you! It is a big difference and a lot of instructors don't understand this because they have only ever been whatever they are.

Of note I had a French guy that looked to be all of 50kgs giving me a lesson on the river and I weigh double that He couldn't understand why I couldn't just 'park and ride' and why I was just sining the kite all the time to keep going. Another intructor refused to let me use the 14m kite on a light day even though he was about 20kgs lighter and was just barely going.

Don't put up with it, as it will delay your progress a lot! This does make it difficult for lighter instructors as to them a 14m will be over powered in the same conditions where you think its okay. Unfortunately until you get your technique sorted out, you do need that power and less is going to make it much harder to get the waterstarts nailed. Try to find someone closer to your weight as an instructor as it really does change things.

While I agree with Christian that a lot of windsurfers have that reaction of pulling in the bar, I did too, its not that hard to overcome it.

I was also surprised when another learner was telling me 'there is no overlap between kiting and windsurfing'. IMO absolute BS. Once you understand the wind, there is a lot of overlap.

Don't do what I did either and just do lessons here and there. I did lessons to fill in time each season and didn't progress. When I finally comitted to going out by myself, I went from very poor waterstarts to easily going up wind within a week or two. The rest is finesse.

I also warn you of getting the right board. The nice big floaty ones they use at Safety Bay for lessons are awesome for a beginner as they plane easy and get going in lighter wind. My first shop bought board is a 145cm (a tronic) and it is crap as the overall surface area is not enough, yet a board I bought later (a CBL) is supposedly the same length (well 144), but has more surface area and goes a lot lot better. (Wanna buy a Tronic... it would be perfect for you ;-) )

I also have a home made board of about 155cm and wide. it gets me going in light wind without needing to change the kite, and its worth its weight in gold.

I should offer myself to the kite schools as a sea-anchor to hold down the big kites for people like me but joking aside, if you get a lesson from an instructor that cannot use the same size kite as you, it will hold back your progress.


Interesting your observations between the Tronic and the CBL, those are the two most heavily rockered boards in the Cabrinha lineup although the CBL is generally a bit wider for the same length so gives you a lot more surface area.
When choosing a twin tip, the width is more important than the length but the rocker plays the biggest role in my opinion. As a reference at 65kg in 18 - 20 knots I'd use my 10m with the Cab Ace 135x40 (medium rocker) or my 12m with the Crazyfly Addict 136x41 (heavy rocker)

Hoping to demo the Tronic in the next couple weeks, it's waiting for me but too busy at work to even pick it up at the moment. Bring on the Xmas break with lots of wind

FormulaNova
WA, 14044 posts
8 Dec 2020 11:05PM
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Select to expand quote
Gateman said..

FormulaNova said..
Yes, 10m to 12m will be right for you if you only have one kite in Perth. I use an 11m and am between 90 and 100kgs depending on how full the fridge is.

Be very wary of instructors that take you out and they weigh 30kgs less than you! It is a big difference and a lot of instructors don't understand this because they have only ever been whatever they are.

Of note I had a French guy that looked to be all of 50kgs giving me a lesson on the river and I weigh double that He couldn't understand why I couldn't just 'park and ride' and why I was just sining the kite all the time to keep going. Another intructor refused to let me use the 14m kite on a light day even though he was about 20kgs lighter and was just barely going.

Don't put up with it, as it will delay your progress a lot! This does make it difficult for lighter instructors as to them a 14m will be over powered in the same conditions where you think its okay. Unfortunately until you get your technique sorted out, you do need that power and less is going to make it much harder to get the waterstarts nailed. Try to find someone closer to your weight as an instructor as it really does change things.

While I agree with Christian that a lot of windsurfers have that reaction of pulling in the bar, I did too, its not that hard to overcome it.

I was also surprised when another learner was telling me 'there is no overlap between kiting and windsurfing'. IMO absolute BS. Once you understand the wind, there is a lot of overlap.

Don't do what I did either and just do lessons here and there. I did lessons to fill in time each season and didn't progress. When I finally comitted to going out by myself, I went from very poor waterstarts to easily going up wind within a week or two. The rest is finesse.

I also warn you of getting the right board. The nice big floaty ones they use at Safety Bay for lessons are awesome for a beginner as they plane easy and get going in lighter wind. My first shop bought board is a 145cm (a tronic) and it is crap as the overall surface area is not enough, yet a board I bought later (a CBL) is supposedly the same length (well 144), but has more surface area and goes a lot lot better. (Wanna buy a Tronic... it would be perfect for you ;-) )

I also have a home made board of about 155cm and wide. it gets me going in light wind without needing to change the kite, and its worth its weight in gold.

I should offer myself to the kite schools as a sea-anchor to hold down the big kites for people like me but joking aside, if you get a lesson from an instructor that cannot use the same size kite as you, it will hold back your progress.



Interesting your observations between the Tronic and the CBL, those are the two most heavily rockered boards in the Cabrinha lineup although the CBL is generally a bit wider for the same length so gives you a lot more surface area.
When choosing a twin tip, the width is more important than the length but the rocker plays the biggest role in my opinion. As a reference at 65kg in 18 - 20 knots I'd use my 10m with the Cab Ace 135x40 (medium rocker) or my 12m with the Crazyfly Addict 136x41 (heavy rocker)

Hoping to demo the Tronic in the next couple weeks, it's waiting for me but too busy at work to even pick it up at the moment. Bring on the Xmas break with lots of wind


Are they the most rockered? They are the only boards I know other than my DIY job which is a copy of someone else's board, including the rocker, but longer and wider.

The tronic has a lot of space cutaway on the plan/shape and the CBL is like a rectangle, but I like that board and have gone back to the Tronic a few times to compare and do not like it at all. I think it suits a lighter rider for that size.

The CBL is even better at the wake park, and as a laugh I tried the Tronic. The Tronic did feel flatter to me and outran the cable much more than I think the CBL does.

I agree with you on the effect of rocker. My bigger board just floats whereas the CBL sinks in comparison (ignoring the size difference as well). I think the deeper rocker helps absorb a bit of chop too.

Gateman
QLD, 409 posts
15 Dec 2020 10:03PM
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Select to expand quote
FormulaNova said..

Gateman said..


FormulaNova said..
Yes, 10m to 12m will be right for you if you only have one kite in Perth. I use an 11m and am between 90 and 100kgs depending on how full the fridge is.

Be very wary of instructors that take you out and they weigh 30kgs less than you! It is a big difference and a lot of instructors don't understand this because they have only ever been whatever they are.

Of note I had a French guy that looked to be all of 50kgs giving me a lesson on the river and I weigh double that He couldn't understand why I couldn't just 'park and ride' and why I was just sining the kite all the time to keep going. Another intructor refused to let me use the 14m kite on a light day even though he was about 20kgs lighter and was just barely going.

Don't put up with it, as it will delay your progress a lot! This does make it difficult for lighter instructors as to them a 14m will be over powered in the same conditions where you think its okay. Unfortunately until you get your technique sorted out, you do need that power and less is going to make it much harder to get the waterstarts nailed. Try to find someone closer to your weight as an instructor as it really does change things.

While I agree with Christian that a lot of windsurfers have that reaction of pulling in the bar, I did too, its not that hard to overcome it.

I was also surprised when another learner was telling me 'there is no overlap between kiting and windsurfing'. IMO absolute BS. Once you understand the wind, there is a lot of overlap.

Don't do what I did either and just do lessons here and there. I did lessons to fill in time each season and didn't progress. When I finally comitted to going out by myself, I went from very poor waterstarts to easily going up wind within a week or two. The rest is finesse.

I also warn you of getting the right board. The nice big floaty ones they use at Safety Bay for lessons are awesome for a beginner as they plane easy and get going in lighter wind. My first shop bought board is a 145cm (a tronic) and it is crap as the overall surface area is not enough, yet a board I bought later (a CBL) is supposedly the same length (well 144), but has more surface area and goes a lot lot better. (Wanna buy a Tronic... it would be perfect for you ;-) )

I also have a home made board of about 155cm and wide. it gets me going in light wind without needing to change the kite, and its worth its weight in gold.

I should offer myself to the kite schools as a sea-anchor to hold down the big kites for people like me but joking aside, if you get a lesson from an instructor that cannot use the same size kite as you, it will hold back your progress.




Interesting your observations between the Tronic and the CBL, those are the two most heavily rockered boards in the Cabrinha lineup although the CBL is generally a bit wider for the same length so gives you a lot more surface area.
When choosing a twin tip, the width is more important than the length but the rocker plays the biggest role in my opinion. As a reference at 65kg in 18 - 20 knots I'd use my 10m with the Cab Ace 135x40 (medium rocker) or my 12m with the Crazyfly Addict 136x41 (heavy rocker)

Hoping to demo the Tronic in the next couple weeks, it's waiting for me but too busy at work to even pick it up at the moment. Bring on the Xmas break with lots of wind



Are they the most rockered? They are the only boards I know other than my DIY job which is a copy of someone else's board, including the rocker, but longer and wider.

The tronic has a lot of space cutaway on the plan/shape and the CBL is like a rectangle, but I like that board and have gone back to the Tronic a few times to compare and do not like it at all. I think it suits a lighter rider for that size.

The CBL is even better at the wake park, and as a laugh I tried the Tronic. The Tronic did feel flatter to me and outran the cable much more than I think the CBL does.

I agree with you on the effect of rocker. My bigger board just floats whereas the CBL sinks in comparison (ignoring the size difference as well). I think the deeper rocker helps absorb a bit of chop too.


Yes, the CBL and the Tronic are apparently the most rockered twin tips in the Cabrinha line up. Finally got to demo the Tronic and here are my thoughts:
Tronic is a great down wind board in the waves, the swept in tips allow you to keep your speed through smooth turns and is awesome for rail to rail carves. It's an awesome board for twin tip riders in the surf. Considering the rocker on this board, it's super fast and can rocket upwind. There are a few draw backs if you are just riding in choppy mush hoping to get back to where you started or flat water in gusty conditions. I found ln the gusty conditions I first tried this board in were not it's "Forte", the loose back end advantage on the turns translated to not being able to control speed as well when gusts came through on flat water and sometimes felt like I was "out of control fast". The wider tips of the Cab Ace (which I rode back to back) definitely allowed more control of speed and control in the flat water but the Tronic held much more speed through the turns and was less likely to catch an edge when in choppy water. If you feel the Tronic "slipping out", just ease off a fraction and this board rights itself and keeps going, exactly what you need in the waves.

I'll be keeping my Cab Ace for the flat water spots but also buying the Tronic for some fun in the waves

Bowerboy
NSW, 141 posts
28 Jan 2021 4:54PM
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I am 54yrs, 90kgs. I windsurfed like crazy when I was young, including lots of wavesailing. I live in Sydney. Over the christmas break I set myself the goal of kiting safely and proficiently. This is what I did:

1. I initially got a 2013 12m cabrinha drifter in very good condition. I got a 151x48 Duotone gonzales.
2. I then had the opportunity to get a 2020 11m duotone neo cheap. I figured having a good kite and board would make the learning easier.
3. I then had 3 x 2hr lessons. These are critical. I learnt so much, particularly around what not to do!
4. At the end of the lessons I could just waterstart and go for about 30m before sinking down.
5. I then had about 5 days of solo sessions, fortunately without mishap
6. By the end I was kiting fine, going upwind easily, and working on transitions.

Key things I learnt.

1. Modern second hand gear is worth it and helped me get going quicker.
2. Lessons are a must. I see beginners who never invested in lessons barely able to launch or walk the kite up the beach. They seem to then be stuck trying to waterstart over and over without luck.
3. Commit to at least a week of kiting everyday. Kiting once a month will not get you there.
4. Kiting upwind feels like windsurfing upwind, so that was easy. Other than that, whilst your knowledge of wind and climate is useful, the kite is a different beast. You have to develop an instinct to let the bar out at the first hint of trouble. This is hard for a windsurfer who is used to pulling back hard in a gust. Once you get the instinct to let the bar out the kite suddenly becomes a docile beast.

I am loving kiting, and I hope one day to get back into the waves. But baby steps first!



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"Windsurfer looking to try kiting" started by HENDO 77