Hi all
After reading and hearing about a couple of very serious accidents, I would really like to hear from people who have either been in this scenario, or have experience rescuing others when s**t has hit the fan
So, lets say, you are kiting with a few people, and one of them either badly injures themselves, or has become unconscious for unknown reason. I am talking worst case scenario. You are a few hundred meters out.
You are attached to your kite, and your mate is too. Lets assume you get to him/her, what would be the best way to help this person out?
It seems quite a specific scenario, even if you do know how to rescue a swimmer, so I am very interested to hear your opinion
Cheers
Elise
Its a hard one man. I'm not a surf life saver so have no idea what the actual thing to do is.
My first thought is that you would pull the release on the guys kite and let it go completely and body drag him in the best you can while keeping his airway out of the water if possible. I'm not sure how possible that is. If you are close to shore if may actually be easier to let your kite go too and swim in.
I really don't know.
I was a lifeguard back in the days. Things might have changed now?
1st priority is to ensure they are breathing. We were taught how to commence cpr in the water whilst waiting for the boat.
If no boat is coming you need to get the person on shore asap. Id be disconnecting their kite to do this.
If the person has a neck or back injury but concious you need to keep them stable and not moving. We were taught how to make a human stretcher with 3 guys arms or use a surfboard.
Two guys have broken their necks in melbouene this year in shallow water and neither realised they had done it at the time. I think they were lucky to not have caused further injury as they didnt imobilise theirselves after the incidents.
I reckon treat it seriously, ditch the kite if need be. Make sure they are breathing and then deal with other injuries if need be.
Been thinking about that myself the last couple days Elise and want to try several things when I get the chance. Def cut there lines and release there kite , but I would be very reluctant myself to release my own kite as this is definitely a power source to get you both in. I can imagine it would be extremely demanding to swim an unconscious person any distance. I would like to try body dragging with someone's arms hooked over my legs. Face up with my knees bent under there shoulders.
I'm no qualified life saver but will have a crack
I would think if the person is badly injured or unconscious it would be best to release them from thier kite. They most likely can't control it and it could cause further injury. Thier kite can be gathered at a later point.
Then I'm guessing you could try a rescue / body drag as mentioned, if that dosnt work ie it's too dangerous or impossible/ or could put the person in more danger you could land your kite on the water as if you were self landing on land, then perform a self rescue while staying with the injured person then you could use your kite as a raft and one of the wing tips as a sail to get to land, once again assuming land is downwind. (Which I've Had experience with this when I rescued myself)
Even if the wind was blowing both of you offshore the person would be heaps safer with you assisting them and you could perform the international distress sign. - waves arms in the air and scream holy****e now we could be fooked 
Dynamic situations you can’t plan for 
but I reckon you would have to ditch their kite then check if they were breathing;
yes - than support them and keep their head above water then wait for help to arrive with something that has a bit of buoyance like a boat, SUP or dare I say it a windsurfer. Use the object and the extra hands to get them back to shore carefully.
no – without a decent floating object to commence CPR on and time being of essence…. lets be real, their going to die unless you can get some air into them and the only place you can do that is on the beach so body drag them back to shore asap doing your best to not totally submerge them, but hey if you get some water in their face what difference is it going to make as their not breathing.
Once it’s all over you will probably need counselling as no matter what you do in these circumstances you will always wonder “what if”
. At the end of the day you can only piss with the dick your given, but you have to try something
.
A mate knocked himself out than drowned about 2 year back he was only about 10m from the sand when it went down.
I was not directly involved in getting him in but the 1 thing that was clear was you need to get rid of there kite ASAP.
It took 2 big boys 90 kg + (1 lifeguard & a ramdom jogger) to get him on to the beach.
It wasn't until the wife ran over and chopped the kite that thay could actually start to work on him.
A close call for sure. A few days in hospital and back on the water 2 weeks later 
every emergency situation is different and I would only cut the lines and free the kite, if the kite is causing the emergency. It could be that the kite could be used to get you and the other guy out of the water faster, or at least one of the kites. My priority would be to get myself and the other guy out of the water immediately and then call 000, not 911 (!!) and apply CPR if necessary.
But really, all kite surfers, or anyone in general should do a first aid course. It should be compulsory.
Select to expand quoteLoftywinds said..
But really, all kite surfers, or anyone in general should do a first aid course. It should be compulsory.
yeah and the first thing we would all be taught to do is dont touch anyone cause theyll sue you and just call 000
Re Kooka's comment.
Good samaritan laws protect you when you take reasonable actions in emergency situations.
Here are the Victorian laws, similar in other states.
WRONGS ACT 1958 - SECT 31B B Protection of good samaritans
(1) A good samaritan is an individual who provides assistance, advice or care to another person in relation to an emergency or accident in circumstances in which— (a) he or she expects no money or other financial reward for providing the assistance, advice or care; and
(b) as a result of the emergency or accident the person to whom, or in relation to whom, the assistance, advice or care is provided is at risk of death or injury, is injured, is apparently at risk of death or injury, or is apparently injured.
(2) A good samaritan is not liable in any civil proceeding for anything done, or not done, by him or her in good faith—
(a) in providing assistance, advice or care at the scene of the emergency or accident; or
(b) in providing advice by telephone or by another means of communication to a person at the scene of the emergency or accident.
(3) Subsection (2) applies even if the emergency or accident was caused by an act or omission of the good samaritan.
(4) Subsection (2) does not apply to any act or omission of a good samaritan that occurs before the assistance, advice or care is provided by the good samaritan.
S. 31C inserted by No. 49/2002 s. 9.
Select to expand quoteLoftywinds said..
every emergency situation is different and I would only cut the lines and free the kite, if the kite is causing the emergency. It could be that the kite could be used to get you and the other guy out of the water faster, or at least one of the kites. My priority would be to get myself and the other guy out of the water immediately and then call 000, not 911 (!!) and apply CPR if necessary.
But really, all kite surfers, or anyone in general should do a first aid course. It should be compulsory.
With my kites for sale I've been wondering as a windsurfer what I would do in this situation as well, trying to think how to retrieve a person on the windsurf kit and come to the conclusion that if I could relaunch the kite I would abandon the windsurfer and use the kite to drag them in.
A windsurf board is your friend in an emergency, it's big enough to float a person, you can ditch the sail and paddle the board.
Nobody has mentioned rule one of first aid and emergency response, don't make things worse by putting yourself at risk. That doesn't mean don't rescue someone. It just means don't blast in and make for two people needing rescuing.
The other rule one is that there are really only two priorities in terms of people staying alive. That goes for the injured person, and for yourself in general and as a rescuer.
1. Breathe air (not water)
2. Keep the blood on the inside, and preferably circulating around the body.
Deal with those and everybody gets to stay alive. Do much else and chances people will die.
In the first instance, get rid of sources of danger. That would mean getting rid of out of control kites. Presumably the downed kiter , and probably your own kite as well.
To keep people breathing, all you need is their face (and your) out of the water. It's not necessary to get their whole body out of the water.
Blood is a little complex. If a person has no pulse then you need to do some sort of compressions to keep the blood circulating. If the blood doesn't circulate then they die. This is more important than breathing.
If a person is bleeding freely then you need to stop the blood flow. Compression is the usual way of doing this. In extreme case you might want a tourniquet. You could probably rig something with any loose kite lines hanging around.
After doing all this you can think about getting people to shore. It is extremely doubtful that you can do that under your own steam. It's hard enough paddling yourself to shore let alone dragging an unconscious person. The best thing you can really do is keep everybody alive, conserve energy, and wait for rescue.
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..
Nobody has mentioned rule one of first aid and emergency response, don't make things worse by putting yourself at risk. That doesn't mean don't rescue someone. It just means don't blast in and make for two people needing rescuing.
The other rule one is that there are really only two priorities in terms of people staying alive. That goes for the injured person, and for yourself in general and as a rescuer.
1. Breathe air (not water)
2. Keep the blood on the inside, and preferably circulating around the body.
Deal with those and everybody gets to stay alive. Do much else and chances people will die.
In the first instance, get rid of sources of danger. That would mean getting rid of out of control kites. Presumably the downed kiter , and probably your own kite as well.
To keep people breathing, all you need is their face (and your) out of the water. It's not necessary to get their whole body out of the water.
Blood is a little complex. If a person has no pulse then you need to do some sort of compressions to keep the blood circulating. If the blood doesn't circulate then they die. This is more important than breathing.
If a person is bleeding freely then you need to stop the blood flow. Compression is the usual way of doing this. In extreme case you might want a tourniquet. You could probably rig something with any loose kite lines hanging around.
After doing all this you can think about getting people to shore. It is extremely doubtful that you can do that under your own steam. It's hard enough paddling yourself to shore let alone dragging an unconscious person. The best thing you can really do is keep everybody alive, conserve energy, and wait for rescue.
All of what you said makes sense and is o for Awesome.
BUT. How do you do chest compressions in the water? how do you even see where blood is coming from to stop the bleeding in the water?
Look out for each other ! Notice.!. A dropped kite.. .. Notice ! Is the rider active preparing to relaunch ?
If the answer is no then check it out ! Even if you have minimal kite skill you can at least draw attention to other kiters
or head into the beach to organise assistance.
I am an old kiter and occasionally i crash and drop the rig ! sometimes i will rest and get my breath back before re-launch.
iIf a Kiter ask's me are you all right Mate ? i really appreciate it as one day i might not be resting and in need of help!
Look out for each other ! It's not that hard.......
Select to expand quoteNickT said..
Hook knife his lines then drag him in would be my plan.
Good question
I have head the are hard to cut also you have to make 4 cuts, after you get out your knife.
Best an first thing to do is, obviously secure him, release his chicken loop, and safety line. then bring him in.
Depending on how close to drowning he is you may have to ditch your kite and swim him in if he has any hand strength left you may be able to drag him in either on the board or just body dragging with your board as a ski like you learnt in your lessons right?
My m8 had to ditch his kite and the victims kite and swim in after his m8 broke his back after a botched boost.
He was choppered off the beach and now he's kiting again.
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
....
All of what you said makes sense and is o for Awesome.
BUT. How do you do chest compressions in the water? how do you even see where blood is coming from to stop the bleeding in the water?
To a certain extent it's quite easy. To a practical extent, it's impossible.
For CPR and chest compressions, the recommendation used to be mouth-to-mouth and timed compressions. People felt icky about putting their mouth on a "dead" person and it didn't really do much good. There was all that stuff about pressing in the right spot at the right rhythm and all that. Now the recommendation is "push hard on their chest", it's better than nothing. So, do the best you can. If you can't don't worry about it.
Same goes for blood. If you can, compress. If you can't, that's unfortunate.
While I remember, if you do get into the position of rescuing someone (including non-injured people), and you are able to tow them with your kite, don't do the obvious and dive your kite and try to ride off planing. They won't be able to hang on. I have found the best thing is to stay sitting in water start position, angle the kite in the direction you want to go, and do a smooth, slow body drag. You will get there in the end and it's safe and comfortable. You can chat to your passenger about all the beers they are going to buy you. I have rescued a wind surfer and gear this way and a couple of kite surfers. It works fine.
A lot is going to depend on the situation at the time - eg are there others around to help, how far from shore, what is the victims kite doing etc. Apart from making sure you don't end up with two victims and doing a basic DRABC, I tend to agree with Plummet - release their kite and while keeping the victim's head above water, try to body drag them to shore or even a boat if there is one around so that a better assessment can be done and first aid applied including CPR if needed. It's a bit like the procedures in a diving incident, but in those cases both divers are wearing flotation devices so you can do some CPR in water. Probably a good argument for wearing a PFD when kiting...
what about detaching secondry saftey, then release chicken loop, put your board under victem and attach saftey lead around chest and board that way you may be able to keep them on playne as you body drag in
An inflation device would be useful.
This one is cheap and you can get an adult size which can be blown up then clipped onto the person being rescued (which could even be yourself). The rolled up float could be clipped to the handle of your board.
www.aliexpress.com/item/1959111523.html
Select to expand quoteLoftywinds said..
My priority would be to get myself and the other guy out of the water immediately and then call 000, not 911 (!!)
OMG. ^^^
I'd guess most of the posters in this retarded thread wouldn't even have the skills to retrieve someone's loose, adrift kiteboard ....
lol.
Such a big question - I've worked in prehospital medicine and it's HARD even with all the gear and some idea, let alone attached to a kite, out to sea with gusty wind and waves trying to drown you as well. There are many possible scenarios and variables but the most common:
victim: incapacitated (eg. Broken leg), unconscious and breathing, unconscious and not breathing (effectively dead).
water depth: shallow (able to stand up), deep
location : close to shore, far from shore but closed body of water, open ocean
conditions: easy to fly kite / body drag all the way to raging surf and gusting winds
BUT essentially all you need to do is stop them from drowning until you get to shore. This may be by body dragging them if they just have a broken leg and you're close to shore, but body dragging someone even partially unconscious will just cause them to submarine underwater and drown. Often the only option will be to keep them afloat - ditch their kite and either ditch yours and skull water with them lying on top of you OR keep your kite in the air and use it to keep you both afloat and wait for help. If you're in a remote location with no one to call for help / send out a boat then it's going to be very tough and you can only try your best with what you have in front if you.
unfortunately if you are needing to consider CPR then don't drown yourself trying out in the water, it won't work. Just get them to shore as quick as you can and give it a noble nut probable futile crack then.
Select to expand quotepattiecannon said..NickT said..
Hook knife his lines then drag him in would be my plan.
Good question
I have head the are hard to cut also you have to make 4 cuts, after you get out your knife.
Best an first thing to do is, obviously secure him, release his chicken loop, and safety line. then bring him in.
Been unable to check this post for a few days, and so many responses, thanks so much everyone!
I hadnt even thought about the kite knife in this case actually, I always carry one but just hadnt really crossed my mind, thanks for reminding me NickT! Though I would have to agree with Pattiecannon and imagine it would be very difficult to do. From all the replies the common theme seems to be to release the safety, and disconnect the person from their kite, and then try and drag him in.
Kite lines cut easily with a hook knife. Just don't try to cut too many at once.
Select to expand quotepirrad said..
Been thinking about that myself the last couple days Elise and want to try several things when I get the chance. Def cut there lines and release there kite , but I would be very reluctant myself to release my own kite as this is definitely a power source to get you both in. I can imagine it would be extremely demanding to swim an unconscious person any distance. I would like to try body dragging with someone's arms hooked over my legs. Face up with my knees bent under there shoulders.
Hey Pirrad
dragging the way you described seems something that could work. I agree that swimming with another person for a large distance would be demanding. Especially in rough conditions. I wonder if another way is to ditch their kite, and then self rescue your own, then somehow get them hanging on the leading edge to try and keep the head above water and sail in like doing a self rescue?
Either way its a tricky scenario and you would have to make sure to not get yourself in trouble at the same time, as that just makes it worse.
Of course once to the beach, CPR, dialing 000 etc, that makes sense (FYI I do know CPR, was more interested in the rescuing bit)Select to expand quotepattiecannon said..
My m8 had to ditch his kite and the victims kite and swim in after his m8 broke his back after a botched boost.
He was choppered off the beach and now he's kiting again.
Wow that sounds like a scary scenario. Do you know what he did to save him? would be interesting to hear from his perspective
Cheers for all the replies so far everyone, though I hope it never happens, it is good to get some discussion going
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..
Kite lines cut easily with a hook knife. Just don't try to cut too many at once.
OK. never had to do this before so wasnt sure how hard it would be, I could just imagine it would be tricky being attached to your kite, trying to cut someone elses lines while also trying to keep their head out of the water may be harder than just pulling all safeties? What do you think?
I was kiting along one day and a board came randomly from the sky and almost hit me. I had no idea where it came from then about 50m away i saw a kite down but couldnt see the person. I kited straight over and found what i thaught was a dead body attatched to the kite.
We were about 50m out but still only knee deep, first thing i did was call out as loud as i could then rolled the body over because it was face down. This was quite hard because i was in boots but i got him so his face was out then just sat there. Kites still attatched ( i didnt pull safety because they were slowly dragging us into shore) i saw people running in and it felt like it took ages for them to get to us. I felt so useless just sitting there as he i dont think he was breathing but he was so limp and heavy its all i could do. When the guys got there they took him off me and floated him back to shore. Me and one other guy sorted landed the kites. And went over to help.
My gitlfriend was on the phone straight away to the ambos from when i first called out, they stayed on the line and told us what to do. I still thaught he was dead and it started to set in so i went up to the road and waved down the ambulance who took just 8 minutes from when my girlfriend called.
By now there was lots of foam coming out his mouth and he started having fits or sciesure or something. Then they took him.
He ended up in a comer for a few days but made a full recovery. Haha now hes a base jumper.
The ambo drivers came back the next day to congradulate us for saving his life but at this time we still didnt know if he would survive.
Select to expand quotelovelife said..Gorgo said..
Kite lines cut easily with a hook knife. Just don't try to cut too many at once.
OK. never had to do this before so wasnt sure how hard it would be, I could just imagine it would be tricky being attached to your kite, trying to cut someone elses lines while also trying to keep their head out of the water may be harder than just pulling all safeties? What do you think?
I don't see the point of cutting lines and leaving bar and loose ends attached to the kiter, unless you just can't reach the QR...
Some crew just froth about cutting lines. ^^^
Any excuse will do, as long as the strings belong to somebody else.
It's a rare art, seldom done.
Improving your cutting skills can work out to be very expensive.
Hey good thread, had me thinking all day. I remember back in the day when I did competitive lifesaving they taught deep water cpr which required rolling the casualty on their back then getting your arm underneath their shoulders and with that same arm holding onto your torpedo bouy (for kiting you could use your sb if thats your flavour) and then kicking and leaning over the cas to give them breaths.(the cas would be lying on your extended arm)
CAVEAT: That was 20 years ago and things may have changed aswell this would probable only be a concideration if you were waaaaay out and couldnt get the dude back to shore, given how close in most people kite if I came across a unconcious kiter in the water I reckon you would be doing ok if you got them rolled over, got behind them then one arm under their armpit same arm's hand supporting their chin/open airway and body drag the hell out of it back to shore all the while screaming for attention.
Incidentally I was talking to a scab lifter recently who reckoned getting compressions going asap was more important than initial breaths as you are pumping already oxigenated blood around with initial compressions so getting to shore asap is probable high up on priority scale along with open airway.
I hope this value adds but please if I'm sprouting hotc##k feel free to correct me.
